Scary PayPal Stuff!PayPal Horror Stories

There are millions of PayPal horror stories on the internet today. There are many more yet to be written -- perhaps yours. This collection of "horror stories" is here to give you a small sampling of what others have gone through when dealing with PayPal. A good tip is to read our "PayPal TOS Exposed" section first, and then read some horror stories. You'll see how PayPal really works!

You can find more recent PayPal horror stories in our FORUMS and in our LETTERS TO THE EDITOR.

If you would like to submit your PayPal horror story here, you can CONTACT US and we will place your story in this section. There are other places on this website where you can submit your experience with PayPal. First you can post your story in our FORUMS. Second, you can have your story featured in our LETTERS TO THE EDITOR section. Third, you can submit your story in full article format and we will feature it in a special section. You can submit your article by CONTACTING US.

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NOTE: The following stories have NOT BEEN EDITED for spelling and grammar mistakes. To protect user privacy, we have removed names as well.

Dear Screw Paypal, I used Paypal for about three or four months, and let me just say Paypal has to be the worst company I've ever used. I have to approved accounts on my profile & I bought an item of Ebay it asked for a credit card number and all the other hooplah and to my surprise Paypal took all the money from my bank account, an account that is not even linked to the credit card. So I called to see what had happened & Paypal told me it's so they can verify who you are, but here's the thing the (credit card) didn't belong to me because my dad was using my account to buy him an Ipod. Paypal told me "I'm sorry sir, but beings this is the primary account that where the money comes from", then I said but the card doesn't even belong to me,"Well that's how Paypal gets the money to the seller is to take from the bank account first". We kept going for about five minutes and by this time Paypal overdrafted my account by $95.00 and it was the acount that I had just opened and only had a few bucks in! the account but did they care? ""NO"". So you know what (SCREW PAYPAL) and the hell they came from. I am so happy that you made this site! I hope that your site costs PayPal so much money and lost business that they beg you to take your site down. But you know what? PayPal is screwing so many people every day that one day they will have screwed on too many persons. Then it will be lights out for them. Thanks PayPal for taking all my money and thanks for lying to me and thanks for teaching me a lesson about how crappy your company really is. Stay away from PayPal!

EMAIL FROM PAYPAL: Thank you for submitting notice of your concern regarding the PayPal account in question. As is our policy, your request for funds has been assigned to our Dispute Resolution Center for review and consideration. Your patience in this matter is appreciated as this process can sometimes take 30 days to complete. In the meantime, please note that records for the account in question clearly reveal that sufficient funds were indeed present and misappropriated by your own Dispute Resolution Center, thereby creating a negative balance. Consequently, your management is accused of causing this negative balance and may ultimately be held fully responsible for those funds and applicable penalties. Collection measures may be employed by our Dispute Resolution Center if you are unable or unwilling to substantiate just and legal cause for this and other financial improprieties of which you have been accused. To avoid collections, please submit a Cashier's Check for the misappropriated amount to the postal address of record for the account in question, as our office no longer accepts payments through PayPal, for obvious reasons. While your request for funds is under review by our Dispute Resolution Center, feel free to submit additional evidence that you believe may substantiate your claim, specifically documented reasons for funds mismanagement. Thank you for your patience during this process. Note: Please do not reply to this email account as it is not monitored for communications in these matters. If you have already returned misappropriated funds to the account in question, restoring its rightful balance, please disregard this message. Sincerely, Eileen Dover and Mike Easter Hertz Dispute Resolution Team

Submitted by Rod, 1 June 2008

Hi This is a letter of desperation that I wrote to Paypal that finally got someone to sort my problem out. Feel free to publish it and let people use it.. I hope you enjoy it!. From Case Number PP-367-468-622 Number of pages 2 FAO Senior Job Bot First things first if you are on your own then stop reading this letter right now. You should make a circle of ten people around it then hold hands to engage the full power of one whole brain cell. After the brain cell is engaged you can slowly start reading this letter making sure that you stop fully, to work out what every long word means!. Firstly I need to congratulate the staff at Paypal for being such a bunch of incompetent tossers. But I must apologise for that comment as it’s really down to the recruitment process. Normally Paypals recruitment information says “if you can read this then you are over qualified to work at paypal”. But seeing as standards of education have improved even in third world countries somewhat in recent times they now recruit by asking two questions at interview “too thick for a Mc Job? Fancy playing with your testicles all day ?” If the answer is a groan or the interviewee rubs their crotch, or urinates in the corner they are hired. If not, they are told to re apply for a Mc Job after taking a series of IQ boosting pills from a local Rave that were recently made from out of date Horse Tranquiliser. Needless to say if anyone at Paypal can sort this out I will personally send you half a Big Mac as well as some road kill for being so very very clever, so pay attention now!. In an attempt to ward off any potential futile contact Paypal does its best to hide all lines of communication including contact forms and the Holy Grail of contact the “phone number”!. If you are persistent and spend a whole day on the net surfing instead of working you can however like me be rewarded with these details. Despite Paypal now being added to my friends and family list I get very little satisfaction in being charged to input all kinds of Krypton Factor style data to win a position into the initial two hour queue that you operate. Without my quick thinking and sharp button pressing skills on the phone I get hung up on and have to start all over. Occasionally if you can pass the initial Krypton Factor questions and hold on without needing food, or a toilet break for a very very long time you get to speak to a poorly programmed Android. This Android commonly known as a “Job Bot” is programmed to see if you can remember the same Krypton factor questions that you had skilfully input all those hours before. When you explain that you have already entered that information and question why they need it again they start to go into a repetitive monotone loop for ages and ages until you give in. If you can’t remember in your weakened and suffering state it is their job to force you to do it all over again from the start after you have had a toilet break. Occasionally as payment for getting this far you get an e-mail survey to complete about that specific “Job Bot” that you have tried so hard to communicate with. If it is negative enough it helps the Job Bot to get promotions?. Another thing the Job Bots do is say “Please hold the line” and then after it gets dark and your wife tells you that the cat has eaten your cold dinner hours later a recorded android says “All lines are now closed”. Some of the “Job Bots” are based in India or Peru or somewhere and you can barely understand them. They use this to there cunning and crafty advantage, repeating the same loop of monotone text until you submit to personal humility and failure. I’m not sure if policy is to route your calls to Job Bots abroad or Just have foreign Job Bots here in an attempt to throw you either way it works. On two lucky occasions the Job Bots have falsely promised to help me in a cunning ploy to make me repeat this all over again! Eventually sick tired and exhausted of playing this game I start to get annoyed at the Job Bots in a futile attempt at resolution and that only leads to more frustration and the monotone loops of text repeating faster and faster!. About two or so weeks ago I bought an Iphone for my wifes Birthday on Ebay. She opened it and having human traits decided that it was not for her. I said “don’t worry my dear wife I will sell it on ebay and buy you the one you want instead”. She smiled sweetly and pointed out the new phone she wanted, as she calmly stoked a soft Kitten at home. It seemed to be so simple I listed it on ebay, someone did buy it now and sent the money to my new e-mail address. I thought I wonder what I do to get this sent to my Paypal account and I got an e-mail from Paypal “You can receive this in a few simple steps” just click here to accept the money. Oh my God weeks later and whole days and nights of pain still no new phone. My account was barred by a remote senior Job Bot, The person who I was paying for a phone with has had the same treatment and now I don’t know where my money is or what else I can do to get her phone?. Now listen to me you twats, it was meant to be a Birthday Present, Not a fucking Christmas present. I have done everything a man can do. You have wasted loads of my time, Called me at home (another Automated Bot, that was better to talk to than the normal Job Bots), Faxed everything I own, played search the credit card statement, as well as find the happy delivery number etc. Please grant me the wish of once again making my wife happy. I want either my money or my phone this bloody year you arse holes! I can give you no more, only my DNA and a used piece of tissue paper that I have in my pocket for nasal emergencies. I want this thing to end you have everything from me, I have nothing else to give except the last few rays of hope!. Your incompetence so far makes me realise that people who stick pins in their eyes out of despair are the really lucky ones!!!.

Sumitted by Martin, June 1, 2008

I used PayPal to pay for a DVD from E-Bay. The shipper was to ship from Camarillo, CA. Instead he shipped the wrong item from Shanghai, China. PayPal is insiting that I return the tiem at a cost of $130 + to me! This is inspite of the fact that the seller listed himself in Camarillo. The item I purchased was only worth $100. So how does PayPal protect us from fraud? They certainly did not protect me and I will not use them in the future.

I am wondering if anyone else has had problems with paypal withholding their money until the buyer receives and opens their package to verify if what was bought was sent.

This seems like it should be an illegal practice by paypal. If I didn't send what I sold, then that is a dispute that should be handled either with ebay or with the buyer directly.

I sold two brand new gaming systems, I have now shipped them to please paypal, and I have yet to collect my money because paypal wants the buyers to open the package and verify what I sent them.

Paypal is a way to do a transaction, that is all they are. Had I not went through paypal, I would have my money and not have to worry about this. Paypal seems like they are being crooked, and trying to find ways to keep all the money from these playstaions.

It makes me really mad, because we're over here out money right now waiting on people to hopefully be around to talk to paypal when they get their packages. This is a real financial hardship, I feel like for all this crap paypal shouldn't be taking their little cut of money first. They shouldn't be taking it all. Man, I want my money, and I don't want to give any of it to paypal after all of this crap. In the future I would recommend to anyone to try out some of the other online auctions available, ebay and paypal seem like they are crooked and holding money to collect interest. I can understand if you have a complaint, or are not verified. I am a honest person, I am trying to make a little money and I feel really screwed over by ebay and paypal. Where is the protection for sellers when you have bidders with zero feedback screwing up your auctions? Where is the protection for sellers when you have to ship things you hven't been compensated for yet? What about all of the stress this is causing us small business people? This is a severe stress on me wondering if paypal is going to give me my money or not. I am sick with it. I hope my buyers are good people who make a point to answer their paypal emails... if they even read them, I know I don't.

PAYPAL PEOPLE, How can you not see how this is hurting your reputation?

Holy Cow...all my suspicions have been confirmed!
...sounds like paypal is not in compliance with FTC regulations in many cases here! To me this is very serious stufffffff! I'm rethinking using paypal for my new seller account.

1) I agree that Paypal should not charge for any transactions other than credit card.
2) I have been badly burned by a credit card chargeback thru paypal. They did not fight for me as they said they would and I lost! I was also charged additional paypal fees as well as shipping. I was totally in the right and supplied proof, but still lost! This is fraud against sellers and the credit card companies should be held accountable.
3) A seller should not have to accept credit card payments thru paypal.
4) There should be much more seller protection against fraudulant transactions.
5) And, Paypal says that sellers may not be protected if they accept and mail items to unconfirmed addresses. So, why don't they do more to make sure buyers have confirmed addresses? I run into this constantly and most buyers have no idea why their address isn't confirmed. Sellers pay way too much in Paypal fees, so Paypal should be doing more to help us!

PayPals a joke! I paid for an item through PayPal, was suppose to be insured up to $1000. No insurance offered by seller. I never receive the iten and used the resolution center. Their resolution was the seller had proof that he sent me the item that I never received. Now I'm out almost $200.

I would like to see Paypal International letting me withdraw funds in USD (from my Paypal a/c) into my USD bank account, instead of forcing me to change it to my local currency and giving me such a crazy exchange rate that it would almost be considered illegal!

Either that or use the market exchange rate. The fees that I pay for each transaction are not enough for Paypal? Must they extract more $$ from me in the form of exchange rates? I am just waiting for another company to offer similar services to Paypal (matter of time only) and I will surely switch!

Within regard to the PS3 situation. I beleive it to be a little arrogant on PP's part to have sellers accounts limited while they check with buyers to make sure they received these things. What is to stop a buyer from saying he received an empty box or one full of rocks. Is PP then going to issue a refund to the buyer thereby ripping off the seller and giving the buyer a free PS3 for x-mas plus his money back? What protection does PP offer the seller?

An employee of Paypal is currently using me email address to send me long abusive emails and I have tried to report the matter to Paypal, but the person keeps intervening them and I can't get any further, I need to report his immediately.

Ebay just yanked my listing because I stated I would only accept Paypal payment if it was funded by Paypal balance or bank account. I just listed a few items recently after not selling for a year and a half or so. This info about their new policy should be included when you choose payment options as you compose your listing. I think they should have given me a chance to change it instead of yanking the auction like I was some sort of criminal. It doesn't look good to my bidders, and now I have to email them and explain the details to restore my reputation.
I did wonder why so many listings are only accepting MO or personal check.

I have sold a few items in Europe and have had bad shipping experience. I had to refund the buyer, and my account was limited during the refund process. So, first I loose the item I sent, the shipping cost, I must refund the seller, and Paypal punish me in their own way by limiting my account "Ican receive payments, but I cannot touch the $ during the refund process. We need some competition here....

Here are a few ideas:

1. Paypal should make it easier for Buyers to use a credit card to fund their purchases instead of forcing bank account withdrawal as the default.

2. Paypal should improve their service to resolve claims faster and more fairly.

3. Paypal should post a toll-free phone number on their Contact Us page.

Paypal chargeback policies are unfair. I Use paypal to process merchant account, have an automotive shop, customer came in had $6100.00 worth of rebuild and upgrades done to vehicle,paid in two installments via paypal. We have signed work orders authorizing work and charges, three different work orders signed by the way for the original visit and two others for additional work after the fact. Not only did customer file a chargeback and paypal gave him his money back, eventhough per the notes they made on our account in the "resolution center" the buyer didn't respond after we sent the correspondence to them, the customer closed an account he wrote a check to us on as well. Our business is now halted, paypal has kept whatever money was in our account at the time the freeze took place, I cannot get a new bank account, have been turned into the chexsystem, and this customer is being assisted with ripping us off. Since when did signed work orders and authorization not be enough to get paid for a job? How in the world was paypal protecting the Seller (us) and fighting for "us" with this chargeback when we didnt even have a chance? Had this gone to the BAR, we would still have our money and/or the customer would have to pay up, but through Paypals Seller protection program? We didn't "qualify" due to whatever. I have asked several times exactly why were the payments reversed? What exactly did the customer say in his complaint, what was the reason? And why did they "complete their investigation" when they never heard back from the buyer after the initial complaint, and after we contacted them 3-4 times? No answers at all to any of these questions, just keep accessing our bank account to take the funds without proof to us it is justified. What would I like to see? A MANDATORY outside arbitrator/mediator for ANY complaint regarding purchases or sales, either side. Then if both sides cannot agree, Paypal should NOT handle money either way without court approval, meaning, if the two parties cannot agree, they take it to court and let a Judge decide, from there the winner can present the court order and Paypal can act on that. If no one goes to court and gets an order? The case goes to the complainant by default. But to take $6100 from us, at Christmas time, and give it to a thief who is driving around and/or has possession of the very product he claims we "frauded" him on? Makes one wonder, who is protected?

Yes, paypal can release my money into my bank account instead of freezing my account. I am a very unhappy paypal customer and I probably won't use your service again after this HUGE delay/inconvienance ! I sold a ps3 , Provided all the information paypal has asked for and I still cannot access my money and it is getting very close to christmas and I need to spend the money that you are holding ! I understand that there is alot of fraudulent sellers out there but I am not one of them and shouldn't be treated like such and I am HIGHLY offended by all this nonsense !

Recently I shipped two items to a buyer with full insurance coverage. One of the items arrived damaged. The buyer took the damage to the USPS and they shrugged and said there was no apparent damage to the carton and they would not pay the claim. I now know that a post office cannot adjudicate a claim for over $50, it must be sent to ST Louis. This PO did not send it on and did not sign off on the claim form as denied either. I called the USPS appeaks today and the claim was never filed by that PO. Meanwhile, the buyer filed a "not as described" PayPal escalated claim. It did not seem to matter to Paypal that the item was damaged in transit. They never got proof of the damage, nor did they see any documents about the transportation damage claim. I got emails from at least 10 different people at PayPal and several were contradictory about what would happen. I felt they were very threatening in the tone & manner of their emails. PayPal froze the money for the total transaction charge for both items, almost $400. The postings that were on the resolution page were incomplete, erroneous and out of date.
My suggestion would be that all communications be posted on the resolutions page and use a button similar to the respond now yellow button for communication purposes. PayPal needs to address these claims in a more timely manner so as to meet the deadlines for filings with carriers and EBay (45 days for fees). It took them so long to decide this, I cannot claim my fees for the sale! If the buyers only choice is "item not as described" then the seller cannot claim the seller protection either. PayPal, needs to set a standardized criteria for examining these claims, with cut and dried rules. I will be at EBAY live again. The best communicating is done while standing in line with other users!
I learned several things: 1. Never leave any funds in your account! Withdraw it to zero daily. 2. Pay for anything you purchase with a credit card, not your PayPal balance. I learned a lot more by reading the boards too. I have given PayPal a LOT OF COMMISSIONS over the years and clearly they are not interested in treating me as a good customer. I am not saying the buyer should be out her money at all, but neither should I pay her for something that was clearly a damage claim. Is PayPal now encouraging us to NOT insure since they will just take our money without the burden of proof? signed Disgruntled, Disappointed and looking for another provider.

Just thought some might like to see a recent response I received from Paypal regarding our customers "dispute". First off, Paypal has "completed" their so called investigation, so what the heck is this? They need to get a little more organized if they don't even know what themselves are doing! Keep reading down for more.

Dear ,

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

The buyer has opted to contact his or her credit card company for assistance in retaining the funds of $2,400.00 USD and $3700.00. Please be advised that in this certain case the buyer is claiming that the
merchandise or services received were one of the following:

Not as originally as described
Received Damaged or Defective
Cancelled/Returned merchandise or services

We have disputed the chargeback on your behalf and must allow the buyer's credit card company 75-80 days to reply to our dispute. If the dispute is resolved in your favor, we will promptly lift the hold on your funds and notify you by email.

Thank you in advance for your patience. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
I want answers:
#. What was the specific complaint, not the category, of the following chargebacks?
#. I did not see anywhere in the notes on my file from Paypal that the buyer responded after we (the seller) responded. Why did Paypal give the buyer back his money?
#. Per Paypals policy, we provided documents, signed authorizations for charges, proof of delivery of services and product, and Paypal still refunded the buyer/customer? Exactly Why?
Please respond to the specific questions, please do not send me another generic email quoting your "policies" because it/they do not answer these questions.
Thank you


Second: This is what Paypal stated in the email sent to me regarding their "decision":

It is PayPal's standard practice to attempt to dispute wrongful chargebacks. After careful consideration of the information provided by you and the buyer regarding the transaction detailed below, we have determined that we will be unable to successfully dispute this chargeback with the buyer's credit card issuer.

ANOTHER GENERIC RESPONSE.... If paypal "will be unable to successfully dispute" the chargeback with the credit card issuer, then they need to direct the card issuer to court or other alternative means of collecting or disputing the "claim". In a sense, Paypal has ruled on the "case" by giving the customer the money back in the first place, GUILTY UNTIL WE DECIDE TO CHANGE OUR MIND???

THIRD: The "card issuer" happens to be Wells Fargo Bank. If none of you know, Wells Fargo is the processor for Paypals credit card transactions, Paypal is not a bank and does not control the merchant and/or credit card transactions. This information is public record and can be found via internet, do a search for "paypal wells fargo" and you will come up with the agreement. Why is this important in our case? Our customer is an employee of Wells Fargo Bank and was able to have direct access to pull his money out immediately. Not only that, as a bank, and representing a bank, the "bank" relayed to Paypal the charges were not be reversed (our money given back) and so it stood. Paypal never noted any response from the "buyer" after the initial "complaint" was filed, EVER, on our "resolution" page, nor did they intend to I suppose due to the "relationship" the two have. Our customer was able to capatilize on that, and give himself a $6100.00 Christmas bonus.

Paypal should not be allowed to process "claims" especially involving Wells Fargo. My above statement in my prior post stands as my opinion per my extreme experience through this process, there should be an outside mediator and/or Paypal should not be able to reverse any charges without a court order or mutual agreement between the parties involved. If they are going to claim a "resolution center" then it needs to be used as such.

I feel for all who have experienced what I have, and am dumbfounded a company has been allowed to operate in such a manner. Another resolution? Paypal needs to make it right for all who have suffered like myself before they wind up with another class action?

Pay Pal has ripped me off for over $500. They are not for the SELLERS but for the credit company's!!

Here are some places I am filing formal complaints against them:

Federal Trade Commission

Washington State District Attorneys office

Washington State Attorney General's (Attn: Rob Mckenna)

Washington State Better Business Bureau

California State Attorney General's (Attn: Bill Lockyer)

California Better Business Bureau

Office of the Attorney General's (Washington, DC)

U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission

Internal Revenue Service

Also looking at Legal action....MERRY CHRISTMAS Pay Pal

Paypal is just another way for Ebay to grab more money from your wallet. It's fine if it's voluntary, but PAYPAL ONLY listings give a buyer no choice and this should never be allowed. Since when is American money or American Postal Money Orders no good? Either take American money or move to China and keep off American Ebay.

If Paypal decides to completely terminate an account because it's on a 'list', they should at least share some details. Being accused after never doing anything but being a good buyer is a lousy practice for Paypal. I forwarded all documents they requested, yet they blew them all off by saying they couldn't read them, or they acknowledged they received them, but then denied that, and asked for a birth certificate.

I would like to see PayPal include as a reason for opening a PayPal dispute:
Seller claims nonpayment from buyer

As it stands now, the only way a dispute can be opened for a buyer who paid and a seller claiming he did not pay, is by checking "non-receipt of item".

This is not truly an accurate method of resolving "nonpayment disputes.

I would seriously like to see a Paypal account that accepts only bank transfers and not credit card payments clearly advertised. If I run a store I have the right to not accept credit card or debit payments and the right to set amounts for which I'll accept them. A coffee shop will post credit and debit cards accepted for charges over $5.00 etc. With paypal I don't have that right anymore. The programming couldn't be too difficult to put in, and it would be used for low volume sellers that really don't run a store, just sell the occassional item here instead of the neighbourhood bargain hunter! You already have an amount of transfers allowed before having to upgrade, so if a seller goes above that you would have them upgrade. I've been a buyer, not a seller, so the upgrade to premier seems wrong.

I have a "personal" Paypal acct. it's supposed to be a FREE way to accept payment. But it's not, even tho I state in my listings (which I'm not allowed to do anymore) that I only accept PP funded by a bank acct not a credit card, ppl still pay with a CC and to accept I must upgrade, so where is it free? If ebay and PP tout that it's free and then make u upgrade to accept a CC payt thats bogus..there is NO free PP acct. They should give us personal acct people an icon that means we only take bank acct funded Paypal.. I'm wasting my breath arent I, the multi-billion dollar Ebay might lose a dollar!!! I'm so mad, anyone else have this problem?

PAYPAL did not offer any protection what so ever for the Seller. I received unauthorized fund through paypal, I received 5 payment with different paypal account all of them has same shipping addres, Three of the payment has been chargeback/reverse from my account. I call PAYPAL explain to them, the customer service promise me that they going to take care of the problem and report to PAYPAL security department and next day when i call again to double check i have to explain the whole thing from all over again because there is no record that i report to PAYPAL. After explaining to them, PAYPAL told me there is nothing i can do. Twice i called PAYPAL and have two different answer.

It is quiet tiring now dealing with PAYPAL, none of the problem that seller face ever resolve in favor of us.

So, where is the promise that paypal put in their website, i have been PAYPAL member for 3 years, and been burned couple of time. NEVER even once it was resolve favoring the seller, and from my opinion the promise that PAYPAL put in the website is misleading.

This is my feedback for PAYPAL promise to seller that put up in their website.

1.We help shield you from liability.
PayPal fights chargebacks to help your business avoid losses.

Feedback: All PAYPAL do is sending email to notify the chargeback, and after two days your account will be debited. Where is the fight back?

2. And for qualified transactions, we go even further to protect you against chargebacks. With PayPal's Seller Protection Policy, your business can be protected from liability at no additional cost.

Feedback: The seller protection policy doesn't mean anything here. Ship item to buyer, buyer claim did not receive it and file chargeback, they will still reverse the charge even you send the shipping proof that buyer receive the item.

3. As well as our leading-edge technology, more than 1,000 employees are dedicated to making eBay and PayPal safe places to trade.
Feedback: Safe places to trade?, Reported 5 times to Ebay and Twice to Paypal, no action taken so far. The Fraudulent Buyer still around in ebay as far as i know.

Paypal is nothing but a fee to e-bay and the bank. I choose to pay by money orders and I have never lost anything-ever. I even bought three train kits out of the U.K. and sent the woman(in Scotland) cash and it was all okay. I believe Pay pal is overrated and from what I've heard the insurance is a blank, too. And by the way- let's hear it for the republicans! they were the ones that made it easier for us to claim bankruptcy but let's hear it for the tax cuts! I am sorry, I am political-Liz

How PayPal policy allows sellers to commit fraud

By providing two discrete buyer protection options `Not as described’ and `Not received’ and not permitting a change of dispute type from ‘Not Received’ to `Not as described.’

PayPal policy enables a seller to protect its self from PayPal buyer protection.

In order to defraud buyers a seller need only delay shipping and not respond to a buyer until the buyer files a complaint for `Non Receipt’

The seller is then allowed to ship the item in any condition and the buyer is offered no further protection.

Should the buyer fund the transaction using PayPal balance or direct transfer from a bank account as suggested by the PayPal system during the checkout process. The buyer may be forced into litigation or to accept the loss.

As a frequent buyer on ebay I feel it reasonable to expect to both receive the item and receive it as advertised in the listing. This opinion seems to be supported upheld by FTC regulations and California consumer laws.

Allowing a `not received’ claim to be converted to a `not as describe’ would serve to increase buyer confidence in both ebay and PayPal.

As a seller I would have objection to the additional liability. It would merely be an incentive to describe items for sale fairly and accurately which could only be for the general good of the ebay community.

I have been working hard all day to find out if I should join Pay/Pal. I started selling on eBay 7 years ago and have been told if I accept Pay/Pal I would get more sales. I have a feedback over over 4100. Reading every thing I could today on Pay/Pal I'm really not sure I want to join. I don't know how I found this board but will probably never find it again. When you're in your 70's things get a little confusing. I read the following from one ebayer and that scares me about Pay/Pal. Sure wish I could just talk to someone about the benefits of Pay/Pal because I'm now SO confused.

- been burned couple of times. NEVER even once it was resolve favoring the seller, and from my opinion the promise that PAYPAL put in the website is misleading.

i wouldent touch paypal with a 10 foot pole, not only do they outsource to india (did i say they have full access to your banking and credit cards), there is many scams where the buyer gets something, files a snad and pp asks them to send it back, all they have to do is ship back a brick. I know a lot of people who dont take it and they have no problems selling

I have recently had a bad case where the buyer filed a claim and won. Pay Pal needs to do a better job in reviewing their cases. When I got my items back he had exchanged them for parts no where near what they were. He even sent the wrong model number items back. When I contacted paypal about not getting the right items back they said there was nothing they could do and that
I needed to file a police report, which the cops wouldn't get involved. The guy got my good working part and his money back how sad is that. Pay pal and Ebay need to not only protect their buyers but also their sellers.

I do not sell often on eBay and have a personal paypal account because I am suppose to be able to accept payments for “free”. After selling 3 items this week I learned that I am now forced to accept all forms of payments through one account and must pay Paypal a portion of all the payments I accept! There are no options to small sellers to accept only bank transfers and that is not right. I feel like I am being taken advantage of by Paypal and I am not happy that eBay is supporting this in their policies. I will be closing my Paypal account until this changes and after what I have read here I doubt I will have any problems selling the few items a year I list. I agree I've been a buyer, not a seller, so the upgrade to premier seems wrong to me as well. I suggest you give us personal account people an option that means we only take bank accounts payments.

Previously it could be denied which I understand Paypal/eBay had to pay a fee when it was denied. To resolve the issue so Paypal does not get stuck with the charges AND so the little person can sell on eBay, it would NOT be very difficult for Paypal to not allow credit card payments to even be posted for personal Paypal accounts so credit card payments then wouldn't even be an option for personal Paypal accounts & therfore Paypal/eBay would not incur the charges for a denied payment & then keep the little person that sells just a little on eBay be able to continue to sell and keep their prices low. Instead Paypal/eBay wants everyone to upgrade to a Business/premier account so they get more money for things that used to be FREE. But Paypal/eBay are just concerned about the bottom dollar that THEY earn so the more fees they can get for things that WERE free, the better for them. However, the only way the little person can sell on eBay is to charge those fees in handling fees which will be passed on to the buyer. Many local auctions tell the BUYER that if they wish to pay by credit card that the buyer will be charged the 2.9%+.30 why can't Paypal do the same? That way the seller can keep their costs as low as possible, the & not have to raise their prices which will hurt those buyers that do NOT pay by credit card. That would be a win-win-win situation for Paypal/eBay, the seller, and the buyer. Then only those people that choose to pay by credit card would incur the 2.9%+.30. If they wish to pay by other means, such as existing balance or checking account attached to a Paypal account, it would be free. I was in the mall today & there ARE businesses that choose if they want to accept credit card payments & how much and which credit cards they want to accept. The seller should have that same option here. It sounds like eBay/Paypal were only looking out for themselves in this situation!

Today I learned again that MY money on Pay Pal is only mine if THEY say it is. I made a CONSOLIDATED payment on eBay this morning for 2 items which totalled less than $20.00-at that very moment someone elses payments got debited out of my account-totalling almost $70.00-I immediately called Pay Pal and reported the items appearing on my account overview-at the very moment I made the CONSOLIDATED payment. You know what they told me? File a DISPUTE-a CLAIM on the payments and then in 72 hours or even a week-we may get around to returning YOUR funds to YOUR account which WE mistakenly debited...Isn't that a HOOT!!!! THEY paid for someone elses Polish Bank Notes from MY Pay Pal account-almost $70.00-and NOW I have to WAIT until they INVESTIGATE to get MY funds back which I did not authorize for them to TAKE...speaking from EXPERIENCE...Christine

Here is a suggestion for you-the very next time that Pay Pal steals money from someone's account erroneously sending payments to people from whom one never purchased-perhaps it might be a good idea to FIX your mistake instead of WHAT YOU DO-which is make it worse...Speaking from experience-Christine
want more info: view the threads: I was robbed by Pay Pal today-or here's one for you techies at ebay-or go to My World on my ebay and check out what YOU did and what YOU should have taken care of and did not...

As a longtime seller and user of Paypal, I have noticed a disturbing increase in buyer complaints and disputes. Paypal seems to accept these complaints way too liberally, while offering little protection to the sellers. These disputes cause disruption and expense to our home-based businesses which don't have the resources, time or overhead to deal with returns and frozen or withheld funds.
Because of these recent events, I am seriously considering joining the growing list of experienced Ebay sellers not offering Paypal as an option. It's really too bad that Paypal started out as such a good thing, but now is showing apparently very little loyalty to its early supporters, the sellers.

I think I'll shut down my paypal account. I had some suggestions for Paypal but don't think they will be listened to anyway.

HEY! Can I get a job at PayPal in their resolution center? Getting paid for doing nothing sounds good to me.

Better than having PayPal tell me I can't keep my hard earned money even when I've PROVEN to PayPal I've been scammed.

Paypal can and will, without notice, force you to submit sensitive documentation by fax to them before you can do anything with your account other than make deposits to it.

You got it! You will not be able to close your account for 180 days from the date of the latest notice which means your balance is unavailable..

Giving them the information leaves only a password between you and being wide open to fraud, identity theft or stolen bank or credit card accounts.

It will not matter that you have had a excellent record with them for years, that you have had a couple of large ($20,000+) individual sales, perfect e-bay feedback or that you are calling them from your verified telephone number. They will not want utility bills addressed to you or anything else other than a copy of your driver's license or SS card. They say it is to verify that you are who you say you are but these kinds of documentation are forged and stolen all the time.

Our credit bureau accounts are flagged, because of identity theft, and the only way we can temporarily unfreeze them is to call from our verified telephone number. That is all they will accept as positive id. Seems it should be good enough for PP as well.

If you open a Paypal dispute and try to escalate to a claim, Paypal says:

"We are sorry that you have been unable to resolve this dispute. By escalating your dispute to a claim, you are asking PayPal to review the case and decide the outcome.

PayPal will review your communication with the seller and may contact you for additional information. We will make every effort to resolve this claim within 30 days.

If this claim is decided in your favor, you will be eligible to receive whatever funds we can recover from the seller minus a $25.00 USD processing cost. We will make our best effort to investigate this matter fairly and, if the claim is decided in your favor, recover whatever funds we can."

Paypal should not be charging charge a $25 fee for processing a claim. If Paypal must charge a processing fee, add an option so the buyer can inform Paypal: "I don't want to pay your $25 USD processing cost, but since I still have a dispute concerning this transaction, I will be filing a chargeback with my credit card."

I did not use eBay much due to PayPal problem many years ago. Recently I decided to try using it again and reopen my account with PP using a new credit card. After paying to 3 (combined many items from 3 different sellers) sellers and having my credit card charged, I got a notice from one of the sellers he cannot send the items to me since PP placed a hold on them for "investigation" of possible fraud use. So he wont send items until this is cleared of course. In the meantime PP holds the money and BLACKMAIL me to provide the following:
Confirm a bank account
Authorize another $1.95 charge to my credit card to verify it (it will show with a code I need to report back after getting my monthly statement)
Fax them the following: My passport, my utility bill, my credit card statment
Veryify the phone number (using authomatic response when their system calls me)
Provide my social security number.
These are 5 items above they asked me to remove the "limitation" on my account (and obviously pay actually the sellers). The 3 pay transactions show as complete on my account, but the sellers stated and forward me a note from PP that the money has been deducted from their account so they are not available. I paid for shipping higher amounts (using FedEx) so I will have the items for the holidays, but even if I provide all the above 5 items, PP will only start resolving this long after this time. I did provide part of what PP asked: my social security number, my bank account, and confirmed my phone/home address/credit card billing address by answering their authomatic call system (they called my home number). I refuse to allow them to charge my credit card and wait to confirm it. I refuse to fax them statments of my credit card, passport, drivers license and utility bill. The total purchases I did was about $500. When I buy something over the internet and provide my credit card number (including the 3 security code digits on the back) that should be enough, especially since the billing address and shipping address are the same as the record show for my credit card company. But this is not enough for PP. Hence i filed fraud claims on the 3 payments with my credit card company (they closed the credit card and will issue a new one - Chase bank) and filed fraud claims against the 3 sellers (since they stated they will not ship FedEx within one day as the stated the items) so I do not care to fix PayPal. From my perspective this is a fraud when you are charged for items and PP "keeps" the money. I called PP and finally (long time, paid phone number of course - though I used Skype to call for free... hahaha) got a rep. and asked her to mark a note on my account that I am going to initiate fraud claims from my credit card side. I told her what I am willing to do but what I will not do in anycase as above. And I stated that if they do not transfer the money to the sellers, they should immediately refund it to my credit card company. Of course they wont refund it on their own - this is their BLACKMAIL business practice as many have stated. In the mean time, two of the sellers, seeing "red" status (of fraud claim against them) have issued a refund from their side of PayPal for which PP issued me a credit back to my CC. I contacted all the sellers and explain all the above, including one seller I am unable to pay for because of PP limited access for items I won recently. One seller has not issued the refund from their side (but has not sent the items to me FedEx either). In the payment notice from PayPal it is stared I am entitled to write to them and ask for a refund of money they "hold" and did not transfer to the sellrs within 10 days. I will do so indeed. Here is a quote from this email:

You, the customer, are entitled to a refund of the money to be transmitted as a result of this agreement if PayPal does not forward the money received from you within 10 days of the date of its receipt, or does not give instructions committing an equivalent amount of money to the person designated by you within 10 days of the date of the receipt of the funds from you unless otherwise instructed by you.

If your instructions as to when the money shall be forwarded or transmitted are not complied with, and the money has not yet been forwarded or transmitted, you have a right to a refund of your money.

If you want a refund, you must mail or deliver your written request to PayPal at P.O. Box 45950, Omaha, NE 68145-0950. If you do not receive your refund, you may be entitled to your money back plus a penalty of up to $1,000.00 USD and attorney's fees pursuant to Section 1810.5 of the California Financial Code.

Important Note: The Right to Refund claim process applies only to payments that have not been successfully transmitted to the recipient. With PayPal, almost all payments are transmitted to the recipient immediately, except for eCheck payments, and payments to non-PayPal members.

Please do not file a Right to Refund claim if your payment has already been completed. If you have problems with a completed payment or need assistance with settling a dispute with a seller, go to PayPal's Resolution Center by logging into your account and clicking the Resolution Center sub tab located at the top center of the Account Overview page.

You can also click the Help link at the top right of any PayPal page to look up more information about the Resolution Center and filing complaints.

MA residents only: PayPal holds a Foreign Transmittal Agency license in the State of Massachusetts - License Number FT3345.

So this is my story - I was not the lucky one to have such and I am sure I am not the only one to had the above problems. To me it looks enough that PayPal has verified my address (it is listed as address verifed) and thus paying and shipping addresses are the same. Lets say we add social security number and phone confirmation - OK. I refuse to give them my bank account, fax them all those documents - none of their business PP sorry - and accept and wait for a $1.95 charge to "confirm" my credit card (even though they say the money will be credited to my paypal account - no thanks - of course not back to my credit card - a fine point to notice).
So you be the judge. Is it reasnable practice to do or not from a buyers point of view?

Is there a spending limit you can have with a paypal account? For example when you spend $2000 your account is terminated? I know of someone this has happened too. Does anyone know why? Thanks.

I recently had a chargeback because I was unable to prove delivery. I offered the buyer insurance which he declined and then he claimed he did not receive item and paypal refunded his money. No protection for the seller at all. I like Bidpays policy where all I have to prove is that I shipped the item.

Paypal is a joke and that's why I don't BUY or SELL anything on e-bay anymore, to cry about how messed up Paypal is and to still use it is why they treat you all the way they do, do you think they would do anything that may cost them money. E-bay has gone down hill and everyone still plays their game, they allowed Software that enables a bidder to make bidds at the last minute which causes the seller to get a lot less for their products and do you think they care, people need to wake up and smell the roses, there are just to many things wrong with e-bay and by doing business as mormal will not effect change, onlt when the buyers and sellers start to stop buying and selling will changes be made.


Paypal needs to get its act together. Managing accounts is difficult and having more than one is a real pain. You cannot use a bank account, email account or CC for multiple accounts. Customer Service is non-existent. I don't get replies to my emails. Phone support is a joke. "Due to heavier than usual volumes...." Maybe you should scale up to handle your volumes?

Resolution of problems is slowwwwwww.

I had only 3 transactions paid by credit card, with PP. PP suspected an unauthorized use of my credit card, and although they charged my CC the 3 sellers did not get the money. A seller sent me a copy of a note he got from PP that shows the funds wont be given to him. Anyway, after a long story, the 3 transactions have been returned to me (refund). But my account is still limited. I asked PP to close it and delete the info but they refuse and asked me to continue with the "appeal" process and provide them more info. Here is what PP asked:
1) my bank account number and to confirm it (by stating the amounts of 2 small deposits they will make)
2) my social security number
3) confirm my phone number using their automatic dialer syster dialing to my home phone
4) fax them copies of my: passport number, drivers license number, utility bill, last credit card statment
5) allow a charge of $1.95 to my credit card and inform PP of a code that will show on my monthly statment.

Total amounts for the 3 above transactions I paid with my CC were $500. I am the BUYER and I do not intend to use PayPal again (and have stated so to them by phone and email). Sellers did not send any items or provided any goods (as they never got the money PP charged my credit card).
Seems to me PP has done mail fraud here (charging my credit card but nothing in return has been provided). I was lucky to file fraud and unauthorize use claims and got my credit card charges back. Unfortunately, I was foolish to provide PP with my social security number and bank account number. I also have confirmed my phone number.
I refuse to provide any more info or do anything else that PP wants me to do. The above is not enough for PP and they also informed me they will not delete such info from thei record for 7 years (be aware!).

What can I do in such a case? Does anyone have a suggestion? I will never use PayPal again nor did I get any money from anything sold or otherwise.

Will PayPal keep the account limited "forever" or for 7 years or what?

I have tried many times to close accounts in my Paypal personal profile associated with paypal, IE: my bank accounts, my email addresses, and change my personal info as much as possible due to the "fraud", however they lock accounts which has left me unable to delete such information from Paypals access. Regardless of the situation, Payapal should not be able to use your personal information as a means of manipulation and/or extortion to collect money from people that they do not really owe. In my case? Over 6 grand. On top of that, I am unable to open any new bank accounts to prevent Paypal from continuously accessing my bank account to collect money from the fraudulant charge back claim. So until we get this resolved through the court system, which is in progress with the "customer", Paypal has blocked any manipulation on my part of MY OWN PERSONAL INFORMATION that I input and provided, and is unable to help us with our charge back claim as it does not fall into their "category" of prtection for Sellers. SO THEN WHY REFUND THE CUSTOMER AND FREEZE MY ACCOUNT, PURSUE ME FOR MONEY, AND KEEP THIS GOING ON NOW FOR 3 MONTHS? Paypal needs to stop interfearing with all transactions that involve money, and in fact, maybe they should go to an internet credit card processing system handled by an independant credit card company like many other "vendors" and forget the middle "man" process all together?

I will never use paypal again therefore I will not use Ebay ever again. Paypal is a worthless company that rips offs it customers. I will never reccommend anyone ever use paypanl.
I have been unable to log into my paypal. I called the customer service help desk. By the way if your a good business why don't you have a 1-800 number? Anyway the information I recieved from paypal was worthless it did not correct the problem.
All I want to do is pay for three items and then close my account and get whatever money paypal has of mine out. Oh for those of you that have read this far if they owe you money they may keep it if there is not enough money there to cut a check I think it is over 5.00. What a rip off and a fraudulent thing to do.
Get out of business and stop taking advantage of your customers

I just had an interesting but upsetting experience with PayPal - join the club, right? Little did I know that when my husband asked if he could sell his Playstation 3 it would be opening a gateway to hell with PP. He sold it on 12-19. On 12-21, PP locked up my account. By then, the buyer had paid, the item was shipped. I didn't discover the limitation until today - holidays and all - and called to see what the deal was. It turns out, they tell me, that ANYONE who sold a PS3 or WII suffered the same "limitation" to their PP account. I was told that because of the possible number of fraudulent sales, PP had to do it to protect themselves. By now, my buyer has received his machine, posted positive feedback and I have destroyed the tracking info. (Thank god for the positive feedback - I was able to get the limitation lifted because of it.) BUT can you imagine the THOUSANDS of dollars that have been frozen as a result of PS3 and Wii sales???? And the interest PP earns on that money every day? I was shocked. They were effectively able to steal my money and leave my little recourse. My choices were: fax personal info to them. respond to a mailed item (that I have not received), provide business info (I don't have a business to tell them about), provide tracking info (gone). How can it be legal for them to TAKE my money like that? I guess I should have read the mile long user agreement much more carefully.

it's true...paypal SUCKS.
After selling on Ebay for over 5 years and receiving Paypal for more than 3, I came to the conclusion that Paypal do not give a #%&* to sellers. Check my story out:
I sold one item to a buyer in Canada back in 11/06. The buyer sent me an e-mail claiming that he received the item but was not happy with the size. I told he could sent back for an exchange (my return policy) and he never did. Instead, he filed a non-receipt claim with Paypal on 12/06 and escalated to a claim. The buyer is verified and has a confirmed address. The item was mailed via USPS Air Mail with those famous green customs forms. It shows on-line that it was mailed but Canada Post does not scan as delivered. Botton line: I contacted Paypal and told the claim was fraudulent because I had proof that the buyer had received the item according to the e-mail he sent me. I forwarded to Paypal with the case number , etc...Today , for my surprise, Paypal gave the buyer his money back. I called paypal and explained that the claim was FRAUDULENT from the beginning, their answer: "nothing we can do because it does not show delivered". So, for the Paypal mind, an e-mail from the buyer stating that the item was received was not enough! Believe it or not: it's true. How can we deal with a situation like this? Guiness Book of Records should have a special section named: Biggest Paypal Screw Ups.

I'd like to see PayPal stop playing payment processor and actually do their job. The term "cleared" means nothing. I just had funds that were cleared 15 days prior withheld now because PayPal apparently had a problem collecting on their end. I know this because I got the buyer's # and called him, but I was told by PayPal it may have been "potentially" unauthorized. You can delete my post, I have many here, but Paypal is about deception. It would appear as though they are actually making transactions that are good, legal, and verified, they are not. And they are quite quick to deny any responsibility to collect on their end. Any PayPal transaction that says "cleared" is not cleared by any means. I'm filing legal complaints now myself, as well as pursuing criminal charges against the buyer for presenting a form of payment that is no good, and willingly receiving the item and signing for it. They sign him up, they authorize and call the transaction "clear", demand that I ship within 10 days, and then 15 days later tell me to hold the package. They have a responsibility to collect from that person now, not me, but as you see, I am spending my time chasing my money now. And until I get my money, I will continue to post anyplace that shows this topic, and I will be filing complaints against both paypal and the buyer. They have no right to use the term "cleared" if they are not clearing the transaction. What kind of Enron style game are they playing? This I'm sure has to be illegal.

I have and maintain a personal paypal account for selling a few things here and there. Today I was told by paypal that in order to accept paypal payments on ebay I must accept all forms of payment and upgrade to a premier account. THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG! I should have the choice of what payment types I accept and what types I don't. I am extremely unhappy with Ebay/Paypal for trying to force me to upgrade my account. I WILL NOT UPGRADE AND WILL BE CANCELLING MY PAYPAL ACCOUNT UNTIL THIS CHANGES!!!! SAY GOODBYE TO PAYPAL and maybe Ebay too since they own paypal. BAD BAD BUSINESS



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